信用棋牌

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        1. Giá Bitcoinhọc tiếng Trung onlineyoga Viet Nam

          họctiếngTrungonlineTintứcBitcoinyogaVietNam
          凤凰文化出品

          从未停歇过的钱理群 如今有了廉颇老矣之感

          2016-07-26 17:16:31 凤凰文化 徐鹏远信用棋牌

          “回来了!”

          刚一踏进养老院的楼门,钱理群就立马向前台报告,像个小学生进教室一样。养老院有规定,外出必须登记,离开和回来都要记录。他把一张粉色的出门条交还回去,一场讲座、两个采访,距离出门已经过去了将近10个小时。

          值班的姑娘收好出门条,拿给他一份快递,是《南方周末》寄来的新报纸。他说他每期都会翻一翻,但不会特别详细地看。

          电梯在12楼停下,钱理群从无纺布的手提袋里翻找出自己的门卡。房间里,老伴一个人坐在客厅的沙发椅上,没开电视,也没有看书读报,一旁的餐桌上放着一个空碟子和勺,碟子上隐约还能看见些许油光——也许她刚刚一个人吃完晚饭。

          看到我们进屋,老伴站了起来,微笑着问了钱老一句“回来啦”,便再没说什么。比起钱理群的爽朗,老伴显得内敛得多。

          两年前,钱理群夫妇卖掉了自己的房子搬进昌平新城的养老院。虽然养老院是一种应该正常看待的新型养老方式,但也绝非完美的选择。养老院里皆是年迈之人,也许今天还打招呼的邻居明天就不在了,这种衰老状态无疑会严重影响老年人的心理。而且像这样位置偏远的地方,老人们自然出行不便,平日里大多只能在院中活动,久而久之难免生出困闷之感。好在钱理群是有着强大精神世界的老人,他很明确自己选择养老院的目的是为了摒除杂务俗事,集中精力创作。所以院里的活动他一律不参加,跟其他老人也没什么交往,除了每天锻炼一小时和偶尔有朋友来看望,全部时间都拿来拼命写作。两年时间,他在这里完成了七八十万字的著作。

          自由地写,这是78岁的钱理群如今唯一的心愿。为了这种最佳状态,从事了一辈子教育工作又十分关注青年的他在2014年宣布告别学术界、告别教育界、告别青年。但他不可能真的诀别,2016年出版的《二十六篇:和青年朋友谈心》以及最新的《鲁迅与当代中国》都是献给青年的文字。只不过,他已不再追求现实的影响力,他清楚自己几乎是在重复鲁迅道路,所做一切的结果就是把箭射到大海里去。他只是为自己而写,为未来而写。

          钱理群一直是极端绝望的,但他也一直在反抗绝望,他不相信历史最终会走向绝对黑暗。所以他要留下一点不同的声音,特别是自己这一代人,经历过那么多历史变换、人性考验,却没有几个人敢于总结经验。由此,他将思考和研究的领域从以往的鲁迅及中国现代文学,扩展到了历史反思与思想史书写,他深信未来会关心我们这个时代,就像我们今天关心五四、关心鲁迅一样。

          这种矛盾彷徨的思想性显然是鲁迅在钱理群身上留下的烙印,而他那份乐观的浪漫主义和始终不曾改变的理想主义则来自毛泽东的影响,这两个人都是他承认的精神导师:“毛泽东对我们的思维、情感、话语方式有一种潜在的影响,我最后发现自己的内在气质都是革命带来的。中国革命对我们这代人有非常深刻的影响,你摆脱也摆脱不了。”钱理群说,自己对真理的追求、对底层的关怀,喜欢讨论大问题做大判断,喜欢挑战既定秩序做开拓性的事都是受毛泽东影响。

          深刻的影响甚至也渗透到了家庭层面。钱理群没有子女,他说自己结婚晚,而且当时是文革后期,完全看不到希望,自己已经承受着家庭出身的重担,不愿意再传给后代了。我问他有没有后悔和遗憾,他说自己事业心更大,儿女情长的东西比较少,对亲情没有那么强烈的情感,这可能也是受革命影响。

          革命可以塑造出钢铁意志的战士,却无法阻止英雄末路的到来。尽管自认为如今仍处于比较好的创作状态,但钱理群也清楚地意识到这种状态不会持续很长时间了——“我现在已经开始有点衰了,写作速度也开始减慢了,因为年龄是一个客观的存在。而且我真正想写的东西差不多了。”学者赵寻也觉得,虽然老师的激情仍和当年在北大时一样,但声音似乎不如以前洪亮了。钱理群说,自己必须抓紧时间,拼命写下去,因为创作随时可能因为自己或老伴的身体问题而终止。

          或许,钱理群真的老了。

          (采写:徐鹏远) 

          钱理群,20世纪80年代以来中国最具影响力的人文学者之一。曾任北京大学中文系教授、博导,并任清华大学中文系兼职教授,中国现代文学研究会副会长,中国鲁迅学会理事。他以对20世纪中国思想、文学和社会的精深研究,特别是对20世纪中国知识分子历史与精神的审察,得到海内外的重视与尊重,被认为是当代中国批判知识分子的标志性人物。

          我现在不想也不可能在现实发挥更大作用

          凤凰文化:从您宣布“告别”之后,很久没见到您了。您之前说告别教育界、告别学术界都可以理解,因为那是特定的社会领域,但是告别青年就不同了,实际上您也确实没有真的告别青年。

          QIANLIQUN:XIANZAIYOUGECHUANSHUOSHIBUDUIDE,RENWEIWOYOUZHONGXINCHUSHANLE,QISHIZHEICIBAOKUOSHANGCIZAIBEIDAYANJIANG,YOUHENMINGQUEDEGONGLIMUDE,JIUSHIWEICHUBANSHECHUSHUZUOXUANCHUAN,YINWEITAMENXIANZAICHUSHUFEICHANGKUNNAN,SUOYIWOPEIHETAMENZUOXUANCHUAN。YIHOUHUIYUELAIYUESHAO,DANYEBUGANSHUOJUEDUIMEIYOU,TASHIGEBIEDEOURANSHIQING,BUYIWEIZHEYOUYIGEBIANHUA。

          GAOBIEQINGNIANWOQISHISHICONGLIANGGEJIAODULAISHUODE。YIGEJIAODUSHI,WOGAOBIEDEZUIZHUYAOKAOLVSHIWEILEJIZHONGJINGLIXIEZUO。HEQINGNIANJIECHUXUYAOHUAFEIHENDAJINGLI,XIANZAIMEIYOUZHEIMEDADEJINGLILE,ERQIEWOJUEDEWOXIANZAIZUODEGONGZUO,KENENGHUIBIGENQINGNIANJIECHUGENGYOUYIYIHEJIAZHI。BIERENYOUKENENGZUODESHI,WOJIUBUBIXUZUO,XIANZAIGUANXINQINGNIANDERENYEHENDUO,WOQUDANGRANHUIFAHUIWODEZUOYONG,DANSHIDUIWOLAISHUOBUSHIZUIZHONGYAODEYIGEXUANZE,WOFANERBAITUOZHEIGE,JIZHONGJINGLILAIZUOZAIWOKANLAIGENGZHONGYAODEYIXIESHIQING。

          信用棋牌LINGYIFANGMIAN,WOQUESHIDUIXIANZAIDEQINGNIANBUTAILEJIE,YINWEIFAZHANTAIKUAILE,ERQIEXIANZAIDEQINGNIANCHULEWOMENDEJIAOYUZHIWAI,HAIYOUYIGEWANGLUOSHIDAIDEBEIJING,WOWANQUANBUSHUXI。WANGLUOSHIDAIDEQINGNIANQUESHIGENWOMENBUYIYANG,WOMENHENNANLIJIETA,YEBUNENGFANDUITA,DANYEBUNENGGENZHETAZOU,BIJIAOMINGZHIDEZUOFASHIBUZAIJIERULE,ERQIESHISHISHANGYIJINGYINGXIANGBULELE。

          信用棋牌DANGRANHAIYOUGENGGENBENDEPANDUAN,WOXIANZAIZUODESHIQINGYOUYIGEQIANTI,BAOKUOWOZIJIZAINEIDEWOMENZHEIYIDAIRENYIJINGTUICHULISHIWUTAILE,WOMENDECUNZAIGAOBUHAOCHENGWEIGENGNIANQINGYIDAIQIANJINDEZHANGAILE,ZHEISHIHOUNIJIUXUYAOTUICHU。SHIJISHANGWOXIANZAIZUODEJIUSHIZIDONGTUICHULISHIWUTAI,WANCHENGHEWANSHANZIJI,BUXIANGYEBUKENENGZAIXIANSHIFAHUIGENGDAZUOYONG。ZHEISHIYIGEHENQINGXINGDEGUJI,WOYAOCONGQITARENBAOKUOLAOYIDAIRENNEILIXIQUJIAOXUN,YIZHONGRENSHIZHISIBUTUI,PINMINGBUDUANDISHUO,SHUODEDOUSHILAOHUA,QINGNIANRENQISHIXINLIFANGANTOULE,HAIYOUYIZHONGRENGUOYUYUSHIJUJIN,TAOHAOQINGNIAN,GENZHEQINGNIANJIANG,ZIJIQISHIBUDONG。WOJUEDEZHEILIANGZHONGDOUBUHAO,WOXIQULIANGFANGMIANJIAOXUN,YIDAIRENYOUYIDAIRENDEZUOYONG,ZUOYONGFAHUIWANLEJIUYINGGAITUICHULAI,ZHEISHIHENZHENGCHANGDE,TUICHUZHIHOUBUSHIMEISHIKEZUO,WANSHANNIZIJI。

          凤凰文化:所以从这个角度上来讲,您现在的写作都是为自己而写?

          QIANLIQUN:DUI。ZUIXINZHEIBEN《LUXUNYUDANGDAIZHONGGUO》YOUYIDIANBUTONG,YESHIZHEICIWOYAOCHULAIJIANGDEYUANYIN,TASHIMINGQUEZHENDUIDANGDAIDE,SHIYONGLUXUNDEHUATIDUILISHI、DUIXIANSHI、DUIWEILAIFAYANDEYIGEDONGXI,TAQUESHIHAIXIANGYINGXIANGQINGNIAN,YENENGYINGXIANGQINGNIAN,QINGNIANZHISHAOKEYIJIESHOU,SUOYIZHEIGESHUYOUDIANTESHUXING。WOXIANZAIXIEDEJIUGENZHEIGESHUBUYIYANGLE,CONGBIAOMIANKANQILAI,TAHEXIANSHIMEIYOUMIQIEGUANXI,TACONGGENGGENBENDEWENTILAISIKAOXIANSHI。XIANZAIZHEIYIQIEWEISHENMEHUIFASHENG?WEISHENMEJINTIANDAJIAZHEIMEKU?WEISHENMEZHONGGUORENCHANSHENGZHEIMEDUOWENTI?WOYAOTONGGUOLISHIDEYANJIULAIHUIDAZHEIXIE,TASHIGENXIANSHIYOUJULIDE,DANSHICONGGENBENSHANGYOUBUKENENGTUOLIXIANSHI。WOZHEIZHONGRENSHIBUKENENGTUOLIXIANSHIDE,DANDUIXIANSHIYOULIANGZHONGTAIDU,YIGESHIZHIJIEMIANDUI,ZHIJIEFABIAOYIJIAN,HAIYOUYIZHONGJIUSHILAKAIJULI,ZUOGENGGENBENDESIKAO,TABUJINWEILEXIANSHI,YESHIWEILEWEILAI。

          WODEXIEZUOYIGESHIWEIZIJIXIEZUO,LINGYIGEJIUSHIWEIWEILAIXIEZUO。WOSHENXINWEILAIHUIGUANXINWOMENZHEIGESHIDAI,JIUXIANGWOMENJINTIANGUANXINWUSI、GUANXINLUXUNYIYANG,WOXIWANGLIUXIAYIDIANBUTONGDESHENGYIN,FOUZEZHISHIZHULIUMEITI、GUANFANGXUESHUNEIYITAO,NEIWOMENTAIDIULIANLE,DUIBUQIZISUNHOUDAI。

          信用棋牌ZHEIYANGYIZHONGXIEZUO,DUIWOGERENLAISHUO,BUYINENGBUNENGFABIAOWEIMUDE,YEBUYINENGBUNENGZHIJIECHANSHENGYINGXIANGWEIMUDE,GENGBUYIBIERENNENGBUNENGGUANZHU、NENGBUNENGJIESHOU、NENGBUNENGHUANYINGWEIMUDE,TASHIYIZHONGZIYOUXIEZUO,WOXIANGZENMEXIE,JIUZENMEXIE,XIANGWOZHEIGEXIEZUOCHAOYUEXUEKE,RUGUOCONGYANGELISHIXUEHUOWENXUEJIAODUKAN,WOZHEIGEDOUBUDUIDE,WOSHIYOUYIDE,WOJIUZHEIYANGXIE,WOBIAODAZIJIRENWEIZUIZHONGYAODE。

          鲁迅的意义是破解大一统

          凤凰文化:这本《鲁迅与当代中国》,基本上2002年退休之后的一些东西。您在后记也说,自己关于鲁迅的研究著作已经有十本。一路走来,您的鲁迅研究究竟是一个怎样的轨迹和变迁?这本新作有哪些地方是之前的研究没有涉及过或者全新的观点?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHEIBENSHUYOUSANGEBUFEN,QISHIJIUSHIGENYIQIANBUYIYANGDEDONGXI。YIGESHITAYAOCHANSHILUXUNDEDANGDAIYIYI,YIQIANSHIGENGYANGEXUESHUXIEZUO、LISHIXINGXIEZUO;DIERGESHITANLUXUNDEDANGDAIJIESHOU,TEBIESHIQINGSHAONIAN;DISANGESHIHUIDAYIXIEXUESHUJIEZHENGLUNDEWENTI,BIRULUXUNHEMAOZEDONGDEGUANXI、LUXUNHEHUSHIDEGUANXI、LUXUNHEWUSIQIMENGZHUYIDEGUANXI。ZHEISANGEDOUSHIXINDEDONGXI,DOUSHIYUANLAIZHUZUOLIMEIYOUDE,DANMOUZHONGYIYISHANG,ZHEIKENENGSHIGENGYOUSHENGMINGLIDEDONGXI。

          凤凰文化:今天谈论鲁迅,一方面确实会有启发性,但另一方面也会产生疑问。毕竟我们所处的时代和鲁迅不一样了,很多具体问题都在发生着,甚至是我们身处其中都难以预料的一些急速的变化,那么这个时候鲁迅对于当代是不是真的具有指导意义?另外也好像有一点失落或者悲观,这么多年了,我们还靠鲁迅来指导我们,是不是意味着在鲁迅之后,我们真的再也没有产生过鲁迅这样的知识分子?

          QIANLIQUN:LUXUNDESIWEIFANGSHI,ZHEIGEWOJUEDEDUIWOMENSHIYOUYIYIDE。LUXUNBUJIEJUEJUTIWENTI,TADEXIEZUOJIZHENDUIXIANSHIWENTI,DANYEYOUCHAOYUEXINGDESIKAO,WOMENJINTIANGUANZHUDESHITACHAOYUEXINGDESIKAO,BUSHIDANGSHIYIXIEJUTIWENTI,ZHEIYIBUFENSHIJISHANGDUIWOMENBUZHONGYAOLE。TABEIHOUDESIWEIFANGSHI,BAOKUOBIAODAFANGSHI,ZHEIDUIWOMENYOUZHIJIETISHI,LUXUNBUSHIBANGZHUNIJIEJUEJUTIWENTIDEREN,TAJIYIZHONGFANGFA、YIZHONGSIWEI、YIZHONGNENGLI。

          LINGWAIWOJINGCHANGJIANG,YINWEIXIANZAIGENBENBUYUNXUYIDUANCUNZAI,BUYUNXULINGWAIYIZHONGSIWEICUNZAI,WANQUANSHIDAYITONGDE,ERQIEJIANGLAIYUELAIYUEDAYITONG,WOMENXIANZAIYAODAPOZHEIGEDONGXI,ZHEIGESHIHOULUXUNDEYIYIJIUCHULAILE,TASHIPOJIEDAYITONGFEICHANGYOULILIANGDEDONGXI,TABIZHEWOMENDULISIKAO、ZUODULIDEXUANZE。

          ZUIHOUYIDIANXIANSHIYIYI,BINGBUSHIZHONGYAODE,NEISHIZHENDUIQINGNIANWENTIDEYIDIANFAHUI。

          DANGRANCONGLINGYIGEJIAODUSHUOQUESHILUXUNDUYIWUER,TASHIGETIANCAI。

          凤凰文化:其实每个人都是独一无二的。

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:BU,TATEBIEDE,ZAIZHONGGUOSIXIANGJIE,NEIGESHIDAIYEZHIYOUTA,HUSHIDOUBUSHI,YINWEIHUSHISIXIANGBIJIAOJIANDAN,TAJIBENZOUYINGMEIDEDAOLU,BINGMEIYOUTAIDUOCHUANGZAOXING,LUXUNBUYIYANG。DAOJINTIANHAIZHIYOUYIGELUXUN,NEISHIMEIBANFADESHI,ZHEIQUESHISHIYIGEBEIJU,YIGEMINZUWENHUADEBEIJU。LUXUNZIJISHUOGUO,ZUIHAOWENZIYUWOTONGSHIXIAOWANG,WOXIWANGWODEWENZISUIZHEWOSUXIU,NIHAIJIZHUWO,BENSHENJIUSHIWENTI。

          信用棋牌DANGRANWOJUEDEBUYIDING,YINWEITAYOUCHAOYUEXING,WOXIANZAIYUELAIYUEZHONGSHILUXUNCHAOYUEXINGDEYIXIEDONGXI,TAYOUBIJIAOZHANGYUANDEJIAZHI。TADUIRENXINGDEKANFATAISHENKELE,SHIJISHANGLUXUNDEHEXINSHIRENXUE,TEBIESHIZHONGGUOREN,JIUSHIGUOMINXINGDEWENTI。

          中国的危险是忽略国民性问题

          凤凰文化:鲁迅重要价值之一就是对国民性的批判,虽然存在很多深刻洞见,但也一直存在一些质疑。第一个质疑就是,国民性概念来自日本,而日本对国民性的发明本身是带有对中国的种族主义歧视的,鲁迅当然是爱国的,但国民性概念在本质上难以避免这种劣根色彩;第二个质疑就是,对国民性的批判,忽略了人性的概念,所谓民族劣根性其实都是人性的共同弱点,并不尽是中国独有的;第三个质疑是,人性概念的缺失,只能将国民性之弊归结于文化和传统,进而为了改造国民性必然会走上否定传统、全盘西化的道路;第四个质疑是,古今中外对国民性的改造往往最终都是通过思想改造的方式呈现,从而容易在政治上演变为暴力革命和集权主义。对于这些质疑,您怎么看?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:WOJUEDEZHEIZHONGZHIYIBENSHENDETIWENFANGSHIJIUYOUWENTI。SHOUXIANWOMENYAOXIANGTAZHEIXIEFENXIYOUMEIYOUSHIXIAO,SUOYIYAOKANZHEIWENTI,ZHIYUTACONGNALAIDE,ZHEIBUSHIZUIZHONGYAODE。TASUIRANCONGRIBENLAI,DANLUXUNBUBEIRENHEYIGEGUANNIANSHOUBIAN,TASHOUDEYINGXIANGDUOZHENI,BIRUSHUONICAI,DANTAJUEDUIBUSHINICAIZHUYIZHE,TADUINICAISHIYOUPIPANDE。JISHIGUOMINXINGLAIZIRIBEN,RIBENRENYOUTADEWENTI,DANSHILUXUNBUSHIBIRANSHOUYINGXIANGDE。LUXUNDEGUOMINXINGGAIZAOSIXIANG,JINTIANHAIYOUMEIYOUYIYI,SHIBUSHIDOUSHIQIANGJIAJIZHONGGUORENDE。LUXUNJIANGLELIANGGEWENTI,DAOXIANZAIDOUSHIZUIDADEWENTI,YIGEWENTISHILUXUNSHUOZHONGGUORENYIZHICHUYULIANGZHONGSHIDAIDEXUNHUANZHONG,XIANGZUONULIERBUDEDESHIDAIHEZUOWENLENULIDESHIDAI,ZHEIQISHIKEYIJIESHITONGZHIYOUXIAOXINGHENZHONGYAODEYIGEYUANYIN,ZHEIGENGUOMINXINGQUESHIFEICHANGYOUGUANXI;HAIYOUTASHUOZHONGGUORENYOUYUANFEN,DANBUXIANGQIANGZHEFANKANG,ERSHIGENRUOZHEFAHUO,XIANZAIGENGSHIRUCILE。SUOYIWOJUEDEZHEIXIEWENTIHEBUHEHUSHISHI,TEBIEZAIDANGXIAKANLAIDAODIYOUMEIYOUJIAZHI,ZHEISHIGENGZHONGYAODE,ZHIYUTACONGNALAI,NEIBUSHIGUANJIANWENTI,MEIYOUBIRANLUOJI。

          信用棋牌DIER,LUXUNSHIBUSHICONGGENBENSHANGFOUDINGZHONGGUOCHUANTONG?LUXUNBINGBUSHIGENBENDIFOUDINGZHONGGUOCHUANTONG,TASHIJISHANGSHIBARUJIAHEFODAOJIEHEZAIYIQI,ERQIEMOUZHONGYIYISHANGWOMENJINTIANJIANGDERUJIADEYIXIEZUIHAODEDONGXIDOUZAITASHENSHANGTIXIAN,“WEIWUBUNENGQU,PINJIANBUNENGYI”、“ZHIQIBUKEERWEIZHI”。

          HAIYOUWOJUEDETABUJINTANGUOMINXING,HAIYOUDUIRENXINGDERENSHI,TAYIKAISHITICHURENXINGZHIQUAN,TAJUEDEKEXUEHENZHONGYAO,YINWEIKEXUESHIRENXING,GUOQUMEIRENZHEIMEKANGUO。TABAKEXUEKANCHENGSHIRENXINGDEYIGEZHONGYAOFANGMIAN,DANTARENWEIZHIYOUKEXUEMEIYOUWENXUE,RENXINGJIUBUQUANMIANLE。TACONGYIKAISHIJIUTICHU“LIREN”,GUANYURENDESIKAOSHILUXUNZHENZHENGSIKAODEHEXIN,GUOMINXINGSHITAZHANKAIDEGENGJUYOUXIANSHIYIYIDEHUATI,TAGENBENDETAOLUNHAISHIRENXUEWENTI。

          LUXUNCONGLAIFANDUISIXIANGGAIZAO,SIXIANGGAIZAOGENGAIZAOGUOMINXINGBINGBUSHIBIRANLUOJI,LUXUNYEBINGBURENWEIPEIYANGGUOMINXINGYIDINGYAOYONGBAOLILAIJIEJUE,LUXUNTICHUZHONGGUODEGENBENWENTISHIQUESHAO“CHENG”,QISHITAHAISHICONGLIXIANGRENXINGCHUFA。

          凤凰文化:进一步看这些质疑,其实也不全部都是针对于鲁迅本身,也包含鲁迅之后的人会把这些东西……

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:WOJUEDEXIANZAIZHONGGUODEWEIXIANBUSHIDUIGUOMINXINGPIPANTAILIHAI,ERQIAHAOSHIDUIGUOMINXINGWENTIDEHULVE。ZHONGGUODANGXIAMIANLINDESUOYOUWENTI,ZAIWOKANLAISHUOMINGLIANGGEWENTI,YIGESHITIZHIDEWENTI,HAIYOUYIGESHIGUOMINXINGDEWENTI。NIBIXUCHENGREN,ZHEIGETIZHISHIDEMINXINDE、SHIYOUXIAODE,BIXUZHENGSHIZHEIGEWENTI。ZHONGGUOXUEZHEBIXUYAODUICIZUOCHUJIESHI,WOXIANZAIZUODEGONGZUOJIUSHICONGLISHILILAIJIESHI,WOYAOJIANGZHONGGONGDEHELIXINGHEGEMINGDEHELIXING,BUNENGBATASHUODEYIWUSHICHU,YAOJIESHILISHIXING,SUOYIWODEZHONGJIMUBIAOSHIXIANGCHUANGZAOYIGEDUIZHONGGUOLISHIHEXIANSHIYOUJIESHILIHEPIPANLIDELILUN,WORENWEIZHEISHIZHISHIFENZIZUIGENBENDEZEREN。ERTIZHIZHISUOYICUNZAI,BINGQIEYOUXIANGDANGDELILIANG,HENDACHENGDUYOUSHIGENGUOMINXINGYOUGUANXIDE。

          信用棋牌WEISHENMEZHEIMEDUONIANZHONGSHIJIAOYU?JIAOYUJIUSHIJIEJUEGUOMINXINGWENTI,JIAOYUYINGGAICONGZHENGMIANTICHURENDELIXIANG,LAISHINIANQINGYIDAIBAITUOGUOMINXINGDERUODIAN。YINCIXIANZAIBUCUNZAIDUIGUOMINXINGPIPINGTAILIHAIHUOZHEYAOQIANGPOGAIZAO,WENTIQIAHAOXIANGFAN。RUGUOXIANZAIFANGUOLAI,DANGRANKEYISHUOGUOMINXINGYOUZHEIYANGNEIYANGDEWENTI,DANSHIMEIYOUXIANSHIYIYI,XIANGFANHUIHULVEZHONGGUOWENTIDEHEXIN。

          柏杨达不到鲁迅的深度,李敖更达不到

          凤凰文化:在鲁迅之后,对于国民性的谈论最著名的就是柏杨和李敖,您书中也有一篇《读柏杨常常让我想到鲁迅》。在您看来,柏杨和李敖的国民性批判和鲁迅有什么不同?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:LIAOWOJIBENMEIYANJIU,BOYANGKANGUOYIDIAN。WOJUEDEBOYANGDEWENTI,ZONGTIHAISHIBIJIAOQIAN。

          凤凰文化:现象性描述?

          QIANLIQUN:DUI,XIANXIANGXINGMIAOSHU,TAMEIYOULUXUNNEIMESHENGDONG。LUXUNDETEDIANSHITAYIZHIJINDAOZHONGGUOLISHIWENHUADESHENCHU,JINRURENXINGDESHENCHU。ZHEIXIESHENDUSHIBOYANGDABUDAODE,LIAOGENGDABUDAOLE。

          鲁迅和卡夫卡之间有很多相似之处

          凤凰文化:每个民族的思想家、文学家,其实都是根据本国本民族的一些东西来作为写作和思考的基础,但是他们能在此之上形成一种普世的价值意义。您觉得鲁迅达到了这样一种世界高度吗?从国外的学界来看,日本学界当然是对鲁迅研究很多,甚至有一些比国内做得还要好,但是除了日本这个紧邻,而且鲁迅又跟日本有着密切关系,好像鲁迅并没有被更大范围的关注和研究。

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:SUOYIWOTILEYIGEDONGYALUXUNDEGAINIAN,JIUSHIZHENDUIZHEIGEWENTI,ERQIEWOBATAKANCHENGYIGEQUNTI,YINWEIMEIGEMINZUDOUYOULEISIZHEIYANGDEREN。ZHENGHAOXIANZAIMIANLINQUANQIUHUADAILAIDEWENTI,WOQIANGDIAODONGFANGJINGYAN。WOMENXIANZAITANJINGYAN,SHITANXIFANGDE,DANWOMENJINRUBULEXIFANGDETIXILIMIAN。LUXUNBUJINZAIRIBEN,ZAIHANGUOYESHIYINGXIANGFEICHANGDADE,WOZAITAIWANJIANGKEDESHIHOU,YUDAOMALAIXIYANEIXIEXUESHENG,TAMENDOUFEICHANGZUNJINGLUXUN。WOJUEDELUXUNJIAZHISHIDONGYALUXUN,MEIGEMINZUDOUKEYIZHAODAOZIJIHELUXUNXIANGSIDEBUFEN,DANSHIMEIYOUDADAONEIGEGAODU,SUOYITAMENFEICHANGXIANMUZHONGGUOYOUGELUXUN。

          凤凰文化:鲁迅有没有可能跳出东亚?

          QIANLIQUN:BUSHITIAOCHU,WOJUEDESHIYIGEFAZHANGUOCHENG,YINWEIWOMENXIANZAIPUBIANBUZHONGSHIDONGFANGJINGYAN,WOMENDESHIJIEGAINIANJIUSHIXIFANGSHIJIE,XIANZAIKANLAISHIBUDUIDE,SUOYIWOJUEDEJIANGLAISUIZHEDONGFANGJINGYANZHUJIANBEISHIJIESUORENKE,KENENGLUXUNDEJIAZHIHUITISHENG。SHIJISHANGXIFANGHANXUEJIESHICHENGRENLUXUNDE,NEIGENGDUORENGENBENDUIZHONGGUOJIUBULEJIE,GENBENDUIZHONGGUOYEMEIXINGQU,TADANGRANBUKENENGRENSHI,DANSHIXIFANGHANXUEJIEJIHUMEIYOUYIGEBUZANYANGLUXUN,WOJUEDEZHEIKENENGYESHIYIGEXIANXIANG。

          WOZIJICONGXIAOSHUOJIAODULAISHUO,WOJUEDE20SHIJIZUIWEIDADEXIAOSHUOJIASHILUXUNHEKAFUKA。LUXUNHEKAFUKAZHIJIANYOUHENDUOXIANGSIZHICHU,JIANGLAIKONGPASHIYIGEHENYOUJIAZHIDEHUATI。

          凤凰文化:能简单谈一下相似性在哪里吗?

          QIANLIQUN:WODUIKAFUKAMEIYOUQUANMIANYANJIU,DANWOSHULITIDAO,KAFUKADE《ZHIFUQIN》HELUXUNJIANGFUQINDEBINGDESHIHOU,YOUFEICHANGJINGRENDEXIANGSI。ERQIEKAFUKADUIZIJIJINGLIYOUYIGEZIWOJIESHAO,TASHUOWOSHIZAIFUQUANYAPOXIACHENGZHANGDEYIGEYOULENGQIERYOUXIANGXIANGLIDEHAIZI,ZHEIJIUSHILUXUNDETEDIAN。HAIYOULUXUNDECHUANGZAOLI,TABUSHOURENHEJUSHU,KAFUKAYESHIZHEIGETEDIAN。KAFUKASHIJISHANGYEYOUDONGFANGXINGGE,TABUSHIYIGECHUNCUIDEXIFANGZUOJIA。 

          卡夫卡

          凤凰文化:您的鲁迅研究更看重思想性,也谈论文学,不知道您对于鲁迅的一些周边研究怎么看?比如对周氏兄弟关系的考证、鲁迅的情爱、鲁迅的搜藏等兴趣爱好,等等等等。实际上这些有助于还原一个作为人的鲁迅,不过感觉您对这种研究好像不是特别赞赏。

          QIANLIQUN:WOJUEDEZHEIYILEIYANJIUYIYIBUDA,YIYIYEJIUSHIDUIYUANLAIDELUXUNXINGXIANGYOUDIANHUANJIE。DANWOJUEDEHENZHONGYAODEFANGMIANSHI,WOJINRULUXUNDEFANGSHISHIYOUJUXIANDE,WOZHENGGEDEHUAYUJIBENSHIYONGQIMENGZHUYIHUAYU——KEXUEMINZHU,HAIYOUYIZHONGZUOYIHUAYU——PINGDENGZIYOU,JIBENSHIYOUZHULIUYISHIXINGTAIJINRULUXUNHUAYUDE。ZHEIYANGYIZHONGHUAYUSHIYOUXIAODE,YINWEIWULUNZAIWUSIHAISHIZAIZUOYIYUNDONGZHONG,LUXUNQUESHIDOUSHIFAHUILEZUOYONGDE,ERQIETAJUYOUTEYIXING,TADUIZHEIXIEMINGTISHISHUANGZHONGKENDINGHESHUANGZHONGFOUDING,TABUSHIJIANDANDEQIMENGZHUYI,YEBUSHIJIANDANDEZUOYI,TADOUYOUHUAIYIHEPIPAN,ZHEISHILUXUNDETEDIAN。

          信用棋牌DANGRANLUXUNHAIYOUNEIXINSHIJIEDEYIXIEDONGXI。XIANZAIYOUYIXIERENZAIZUOLUXUNBOWUXUEYANJIU,ZHEIJIUFEICHANGYOUJIAZHI。YINWEIBOWUXUEFANERKENENGSHILUXUNZIJIGENBENDEDONGXI,KENENGSHIGENGJIEJINLUXUNDE,KEXUEMINZHU、PINGDENGZIYOUSHIWAILAIDEDONGXI,ZHEIFANGMIANYANJIUXIANZAIYOUHENKAIKUODEQIANJING。WODEJUXIANSHIZHISHIJIEGOUDEJUXIAN,YAOWOYANJIUBOWUXUEJIUHENKUNNAN,TONGSHIZAIMOUZHONGCHENGDUSHANG,WOMENDEWAIZAIYANJIUYIJINGCHABUDUOLE,ZAIWOMENDELUSHANGZAIWANGQIANZOUHENNAN。DANSHIBAOKUOLUXUNDUIZONGJIAO、DUIMEISHU、DUIBEITIE、DUIXIANGXIANWENMINGDELIJIE——LUXUNHEZHOUZUORENGENGJIEJINDEYIBUFEN,WORENWEISHIGENGNEIZAIDEDONGXI,GANGCAINIJIANGDENEIXIEYANJIUZHISHIZHANLEYIGEBIAN。

          信用棋牌ZHEILIYEBAOKUOZUOWEIWENRENDELUXUN,FEICHANGZHONGYAO,ZHEIGENGHUIDALELUXUNGENCHUANTONGBUSHIGELIE,TAGENCHUANTONGSHENKELIANXI,BUSHIZAILINIANSHANG,ERSHIZAIZHEIXIEFANGMIAN。TABENZHISHANGSHIGEWENREN,ERQIESHIZHONGGUOCHUANTONGDEWENREN,TADEAIHAODOUBUSHIYEYUAIHAODEWENTI,SHIZHISHIJIEGOUGENZHONGGUOCHUANTONGGENGSHENKEDELIANXI,TAZHAODAOLEZHONGGUOCHUANTONGHEXIFANGZUIXIANJINDONGXIDEZHIJIEQIHEDIAN,ZHEISHIFEICHANGLEBUQIDEYANGUANGHEZHISHI。YAOZHENZHENGLEJIELUXUNYUCHUANTONGWENHUAHEXIFANGWENHUADEGUANXI,KENENGZHEISHIGENBENDEQIERUDIAN。SUOYIWODUIZHEIXIEYANJIUBAOYOUXIWANG,DANNITINEIXIEWOJUEDEHAIZAIBIANYUANSHANG,MEIYOUZHUADAOYAOHAI,ERQIEMEIYOUZIJUEXING。

          我的内在气质都是革命带来的,毛泽东对我影响太深刻

          凤凰文化:您承认过自己的精神导师是鲁迅和毛泽东,鲁迅自然是显而易见的,毛泽东对您的影响体现在哪里?

          QIANLIQUN:NIKANGUOWODE《MAOZEDONGSHIDAIYUHOUMAOZEDONGSHIDAI》ZHEIBENSHUMA?

          凤凰文化:看过。

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:NEIBENSHUJIUHENNENGBIAOXIANWOGENMAOZEDONGDEGUANXI。CONGWOZIJIDESIXIANGFAZHANLAISHUO,BASHINIANDAISHILITUBAITUOMAOZEDONG、BAITUOZUOYI,YINWEIWOMIANLINZHETAMENDUIWOMENDESHUFU;DAOLEJIUSHINIANDAI,TEBIESHICHUXIANLESHEHUILIANGJIFENHUAYIHOU,JIUFANGUOLAIZHONGXINKANDAITAMENDECHUANTONG,SUOYIWODUILUXUNDEZUOYIYANJIUSHIDAOJIUSHINIANDAICAIKAISHI。

          YUQISHUOMAOZEDONGDUIWODEYINGXIANG,BURUSHUOSHIGEMINGYINGXIANG,WOZUIHOUFAXIANWOZIJIDENEIZAIQIZHIDOUSHIGEMINGDAILAIDE。SUOYIXIANZAIWOJIUYOUHENDADEMAODUN,RUGUOSHUOJUTIZUOFAWODOUSHIPIPANXINGDE,DANSHIQUEYOUYIXIEJINGSHENSHANGDEJICHENG。

          凤凰文化:这是不是您这一代人难以摆脱的东西?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:SHI,WOMENDUIZHONGGUOGEMINGSHICHOUXIANGKENDING、JUTIFOUDING,JUTISHIYOUZHIYIDE,DANSHINEIZAIJINGSHENDEDONGXISHIJISHANGWOMENJICHENGLE,BIRULIXIANGZHUYI、DUIZHENLIDEZHUIQIU、DUIDICENGDEGUANHUAI。XIANZAIDAJIAKANZHONGDEWODEQIZHIDEHENDUODONGXIQISHISHIGEMINGDAILAIDE,SHIGEMINGJIALUXUN。ZHONGGUOGEMINGDUIWOMENZHEIDAIRENYOUFEICHANGSHENKEDEYINGXIANG,NIBAITUOYEBAITUOBULE。

          凤凰文化:您有试图摆脱过吗?

          QIANLIQUN:BU,TASHIZHENGMIANDEDONGXI。WOMENZHENDESHIZHONGGUOGEMINGPEIYANGCHULAIDEYIDAIREN。

          凤凰文化:但它可能也造成一些思维方式上的局限,您又是做学问的人,有没有曾经试图摆脱过?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHEISHINANYIBAITUODE。HUANGZIPINGDUIYUWODE《MAOZEDONGSHIDAIYUHOUMAOZEDONGSHIDAI》YOUYIGEFEICHANGZHUNQUEDEPINGJIA,TASHUOQIANLIQUNBUGUANZENMEPI,QISHITIAOBUCHUMAOZEDONGDEYANSHUOFANGSHIHESIWEIFANGSHI。BIRUWOJINGCHANGYOUDADEWENTI、DADECI、DADESIKAO,ZHEIDOUSHIMAOZEDONGDESIWEIFANGSHI,BAOKUOWOYONGDEYUYAN、WENTI,DOUKEYIKANCHUMAOZEDONGDEYINGXIANG,DENGYUSHUOMAOZEDONGDUIWOMENDESIWEI、QINGGAN、HUAYUFANGSHIYOUYIZHONGQIANZAIDEYINGXIANG。BAOKUOWENGE,DANCHUNCONGLILUNSHANGKEYIZHAODAOHENDUOWENTI,DANQUESHIDUIWOMENYINGXIANGTAISHENKELE。

          凤凰文化:那在鲁迅和毛泽东之间,您觉得自己更偏向哪个?

          QIANLIQUN:LUXUNHEMAOZEDONGYOUXIANGTONGDEDIFANG,TAMENDOUBUMANZUXIANZHUANG。WOPEIFUMAOZEDONGDEYIDIAN,YESHITAHEQITATONGZHIZUIDADEQUBIE,JIUSHIBIEDETONGZHIYIDANZHANGWOQUANLIJIUBIANDEBAOSHOU,ERTABUXIBATAPOHUAIDIAO,TAYOUNEIZAIDEPOHUAICHONGDONG。DANCONGGENBENSHANGTAYOUSHIBAOSHOUDE。

          WOXIHUANZUODAPANDUAN——QISHISHIKEYIDE,XIHUANTAOLUNDAWENTI,ZHEISHIWODEYOUDIANYESHIQUEDIAN。

          凤凰文化:所以这一点上受毛泽东影响大于鲁迅。

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:XIANRANSHIMAOZEDONGDEYINGXIANG。SUOYIXUEJIEBINGBUWANQUANRENTONGWO,JIARUCHUNCUIXUEYUANPAI,WOZHEIXIEDONGXIDOUSHIFANJIDE。

          凤凰文化:学院是问题越具体越好。

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:WOCHANGCHANGZUOYIXIEKANQILAIBUKEZUODESHIQING,WOXIE《MAOZEDONGSHIDAIYUHOUMAOZEDONGSHIDAI》ZHEIBENSHU,BENSHENXUANTIJIUSHIHENDUOPENGYOUBUZANCHENGDE。

          凤凰文化:因为您不是搞历史的。

          QIANLIQUN:SHI。WOJIUSHIXIHUANZUOYIXIEBIERENMEIYOUGAOGUODESHI,XIANGGAOKAITUOXINGDEDONGXI,NIYUEJUEDEBUNENGGAOJIUYUEYAOGAO,WOYAOTIAOZHAN,TIAOZHANJIDINGZHIXU,YINCISHOUDAOFEIYIYESHIZHEIGE。ZHEIDOUSHISHOULUXUNHEMAOZEDONGYINGXIANG。

          跟土地有深刻联系的农民只剩老农民了 

          《和青年朋友谈心》

          凤凰文化:在您的《和青年朋友谈心》中,您号召青年到农村去,看到和城市不同的世界,并认为未来农村是农村精英和知识青年两种人的结合。这些观点是否也有毛泽东的影子?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:YOUMAOZEDONGDEYINGZI,ZHEIGEWENTIWORENWEISHIMAOZEDONGZUIDADEGONGXIAN,YESHIZHONGGUOGEMINGZUICHENGGONGDEDIFANG,TAZHUAZHUZHONGGUOTEDIANSHIYINONGCUNWEIGENJUDI。GEMINGKAONONGMIN,GAIGEKAIFANGYESHICONGNONGCUNKAISHIDE。WORENWEIZHEISHIMAOZEDONGHENZHENGMIANDEDONGXI。JINTIANSHIJISHANGYEYOUZHEIGEWENTI,ZHONGGUOXIANDAIHUAZENMEGAO,SHIBUSHIWANQUANZOUGONGYEHUADAOLU,WANQUANZOUCHENGSHIHUADAOLU,SHISHISHANGWOJUEDEXIANZAIZHENGFUZHUAZHUNONGCUN、BAOKUOTICHUSHENGTAIWENMINGDOUYOUHELIXING,YEJIUSHISHUOWOMENBUJINGEMINGXUYAONONGCUN,GAIGECHUQIXUYAONONGCUN,JIANGLAIZHENZHENGZOUXIANGZHONGGUODAOLUHAISHIYAOKAOLVNONGCUNWENTI。BIEDEGUOJIAKEYIXIAOMIENONGCUN,ZHONGGUOBUKENENG,SUIRANHENDUORENKOUYAOJINRUCHENGSHI,DANSHIZHONGGUONONGCUNYEBAOLIUZHEXIANGDANGDUODEREN。ERQIEZHONGGUODEJIANSHESHIBUSHIFEIDEZOUGONGYEHUADAOLU?ZHEISHIWOXIANZAIQIANGDIAO“DAONONGCUNQU”DEYIGEXINYIYI。

          凤凰文化:但是眼下的中国农村已经呈现出了空心化和衰败感,不要说城市的精英和城市的知识青年,就是农村的精英和知识青年都不在农村,甚至农村的非精英、非知识青年都已经从乡村撤离了。那在什么时候、什么方式才能实现您所说的两种人的结合?

          QIANLIQUN:XIANZAIMIANLINDEZUIDAWENTIJIUSHIZHEIGEWENTI,BUJINSHIKONGXINHUADEWENTI,KONGXINHUAKEYIJIEJUE,KONGXINHUAKEYIHUIQU,ZAIZHONGXINJIANSHE。

          凤凰文化:但现在都在说留不下的城市、回不去的农村。

          QIANLIQUN:WENTIJIUSHIZHEIGE。XIANZAIDENONGMINYIJINGBUSHIYUANLAIDENONGMINLE,TAYIJINGTUOLITUDILE,NONGERDAI、NONGSANDAIYIJINGBUSHINONGMINLE,TAGENTUDIMEISHENMEGUANXILE,TAXIANZAIXIANRUYIGEGANGA,LIANGBIANBUKAO。DANSHIWOSHIZHONGHAISHIGULIYIBUFENNONGCUNQINGNIANHUIQU,YINWEIZHONGGUOGONGYEHUAHEXIANDAIHUABUNENGWANQUANZOUXIFANGGONGYEHUADEDAOLU,BIXUKAOLVZHONGGUOGUOQING,SUOYIXIANGCUNJIANSHEHAISHIYIPIANHENDADETIANDI。ZHEIDANGRANSHIWODELIXIANGZHUYI,ZUIGENBENDEWENTISHINONGMINZINVBUZHEIMEXUANZE,WOMENGENTUDIYOUSHENKELIANXIDENONGMINZHISHENGLAONONGMINLE,DANWOHAIBUYUANYIFANGQILIXIANG。

          我的准确思想是反抗绝望

          凤凰文化:您说您是理想主义,甚至我觉得您身上还有一些浪漫主义气质,您很多时候都是乐观的。连鲁迅都是悲观的,您的乐观是如何保持的?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:WOYIZHIQIANGDIAO,WODEZHUNQUESIXIANGSHIFANKANGJUEWANG。

          凤凰文化:那您有过绝望的时候吗?

          QIANLIQUN:DANGRAN,YIZHIDOUSHIJIDUANJUEWANGDE,BUSHIYIBANDEJUEWANG。

          凤凰文化:您对自己有过绝望的时候吗?比如说您曾经对自己的社会实践活动做出过评价,认为对于自己的意义大于社会意义,实际作用很小,这算是一种失落感和无力感吗,是不是也是一个悲观的时刻?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHEIJIUSHISHUYUFANKANGJUEWANG,TADEQIANTISHIJUEWANG,BAOKUOSUOZUODEYIQIEDOUMEIDUODAYIYI,DANHAISHIYAOFANKANG,ZHEIZHENGSHIZHONGGUOCHUANTONGDEZHIQIBUKEWEIERWEIZHI。

          凤凰文化:也就是说意义在于反抗本身,而不是反抗的结果?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:DANGRANZONGHUIYOUYIDIANZHENGMIANJIEGUO,BUSHIYIDIANJIEGUOMEIYOU,DANZONGTILAISHUO,TEBIESHIXIANGWOMENZHEIYANGDESIXIANGXINGZUOYIXUEZHE,ZAIDANGDAIZHONGGUOJIBENSHANGMEISHENMEZUOYONG,JIBENMEIYOUFAHUIZUOYONGDEYUDI。

          信用棋牌HAIYOU,WOSHOULUXUNYINGXIANG,DUIZISHENDEGUJISHIHENQINGXINGDE,SUIRANWOXIANZAISHEHUIDIWEIHENGAO,DANWOZIJIHENQINGCHUZHEIDOUSHIXUDE,WOYAOZUODEJIUSHIZUIDAXIANDUDIZAIZHEIGEFANWEINEIFAHUI。LUXUNQISHIYESHIZHEIYANG,FOUZETAGANSHENMEYIZHIXIEDAOSI,ANLISHUOZAOJIUTINGBIHUOZHEHUIDAZIJILE,ZHOUZUORENJIUSHIZHEIYANG。LUXUNQINGCHUTAYAOZUOSHENME,TAZAOSHUOGUOJIUXIANGYIGENJIANSHEDAODAHAILIQU。WOJINGCHANGXIANGZHEIJUHUA,WOXIANZAIZUODEJIHUSHIZHONGFULUXUNDAOLU,XIAOGUOJIUSHISHEDAODAHAILI。

          政治家也是理想主义知识分子

          凤凰文化:我能理解您的这些行动,其实也是在实践您自己所说的知识分子对政治的一种间接参与。我想问的是,您觉得知识分子在多大程度上可以实现这种政治参与的追求?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHISHIFENZISHIJISHANGYOULIANGZHONGLEIXING,WOMENSHIJINGSHENJIEZHANSHI,SHIJINGSHENLINGYULIDE,HAIYOUYIZHONGSHIZHENGZHIJIA。

          凤凰文化:您将政治家视为知识分子?

          QIANLIQUN:DANGRAN,YINWEIZHENGZHIJIAYOUTADEZHENGZHIBAOFU、ZHENGZHILILUN、ZHENGZHILIXIANG、ZHENGZHILINIAN,BENZHISHANGSHIYOULIXIANGYOUZHUIQIUDE,ZHENGZHIJIAHEZHENGKEQUBIEJIUSHIZHEIGEDIFANG,MOUZHONGCHENGDUSHANGZHENGZHIJIAYESHILIXIANGZHUYIZHE。WOMENXIANZAIDEXUDUOGUANLIAOBUJIAOZHENGZHIJIA,ZHISHIZHENGKE。ZAIWOKANLAIAOBAMAJIUSHILIXIANGZHUYIZHE,DANTELANGPUBUSHI。

          ZHENZHENGJIEJUEWENTISHIKAOZHENGZHIJIA,BUSHIKAOWOMENZHEIZHONG,WOMENJIUSHIZAIBIANYUAN,NINENGTINGWOJIANGHUAJIUXINGLE,WOMENSHIQIQINGXINGJIDEZUOYONG,TIXINGNIBUGAIZHEIMEYANG。WOMENZHEIZHONGZHISHIFENZIXIANTIANJIUYOUJUXIAN,DANLINGYIFANGMIANYOUYINGXIANGSHENKE。

          凤凰文化:您曾经写过《我的家庭回忆录》,让我们了解了很多您和亲人之间的故事。少年时因为恐惧,亲手烧掉了父亲的照片,而后来您为了理想为了正义变得敢说敢做,这份勇气是从什么时候凝聚起来的?是不是和后来获得的社会地位与名望有很大关系?举个例子,据说您当年批评语文教育,被点名批评,差点被辞退,但因为受师生喜爱,又年事已高,最终才作罢。

          QIANLIQUN:NEIGEZUIHOUSHIXUESHENGQIDEZUOYONG,WOBEIDIANMINGPIPAN,BEIDAXUESHENGXIANQIWANLIUQIANXIANSHENGDEYUNDONG,HOULAIXUEXIAOLINGDAOJIUQUFANYING,RUGUOQIANGZHICITUIQIANLIQUNDEHUA,BEIDAXUESHENGKENENGNAOSHI。

          ZHEIZHONGYONGQIQISHIZAIMOUZHONGCHENGDUSHANGGENWODEWENGEJINGLIYOUGUANXI,WOSHIZAOFANPAI,DUISHEHUIDICENGGENGLIJIE,ZAIZHEIGEDANGZHONGXINGCHENGWODEFANKANGXINGGE,MOUZHONGCHENGDUSHANGYESHIMAOZEDONGYINGXIANG、GEMINGDEYINGXIANG。YEQUESHIDANZIBIJIAODA,ANSHUOBIERENXIANGWOZHEIZHONGJIATINGCHUSHENDOUJIAZHEWEIBAGUORIZI,ERWOBUSHI,ZHEIKENENGYESHISHOUGEMINGDEYINGXIANG。

          DANGRANWOGENWOXUESHENGYEZHEIMESHUO,HENDUOHUAWONENGSHUO,NIMENBUNENGSHUO,YUANYINJIUSHINIMENTAIRONGYIBEIMIEDIAOLE。WODEFANKANGBUSHICONGYIKAISHIFANKANG,BASHINIANDAIWOJIBENSHANGGENSHEHUIBAOCHIJULI,YAOJINRUTIZHI。WODEDAOTIZHIDECHENGREN,WOHUODELEDIWEI,ZHEISHIHOUCAIFAYAN,SHIJISHANGSHIDAO1997NIANYIHOUCAIKAISHI。WODETESHUXINGZAIYU,WOSHOUXIANJINRUTIZHI,ERBUSHIYIKAISHIJIUZAITIZHIWAI,LINGWAIWOJINRUTIZHIYOUZOUCHULAI,ZHEIZAIZHONGGUOJIHUDUYIWUER。DANSHIYOUYIGETIAOJIAN,JIUSHIDANGWO1997NIANKAISHIZOUCHULAIDESHIHOU,WOYIJINGYOUXIANGDANGDADEDIWEIHEYINGXIANGLE,BIERENXIANGDONGWOJIUBUSHITAIRONGYILE。WOJUEDEWOZHEITIAOLUSHIYOUDAOLIDE,NIXIANYAODEDAOTIZHICHENGREN,DANSHIWENTIZAIDEDAOTIZHICHENGRENHOU,ZHEIGERENJIURONGYIBEITIZHISHOUBIAN,BIXUYOUGENGQIANGDADELIXIANG、GENGQIANGDADEDONGLICAIKENENGBUBEITIZHISHOUBIAN。WOJUEDEZHEISHIWODEJINGYAN,WOZOUZHEIGELUDEYUANYINJIUSHI,JINRUTIZHIYINCIWOFAYANJIUYOUFENLIANG,DANSHIWOYOUBUBEITIZHISHOUBIAN。

          凤凰文化:如果我们做一个假设,您以现在的身份、经历、意志,假设重新经历文革,您会如何自处?进一步探讨,若权力无限扩张,知识分子的本分、责任、使命从何谈起?也就是说知识分子的独立性等等,是不是也是视权力的情况而定?

          QIANLIQUN:WOWEISHENMEZHEIMEPINMINGXIEZUO,YUANYINJIUSHIZHEIZHONGJIHUISUISHIKENENGHUIDIUDIAO,YIGESHIWOZIJISHENTIDIUDIAOLE,HAIYIGEJIUSHIBUYUNXUXIE。

          凤凰文化:那如果所有的知识分子都变成这样……

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHINENGZHEIYANG,SUOYIBEIGUANDEJIUSHIZHEIYIDIAN。DANSHISHISHISHANGBUKENENG。

          凤凰文化:为什么不可能?

          QIANLIQUN:SHIQINGFAZHANDAOJUEDUIJIUHUIZOUDAOFANMIAN,ZHEISHILISHIZHENGMINGDESHISHI。LISHISHANGDUANQINEIDEJUEDUIHEIANSHIQIDUODESHI,ZHONGSHIJIZUIHEIANDESHIHOUKEBUJIUSHISHEIDOUBUSHUOHUA,WENGESHIHOUDAJIADOUBUSHUOHUA,SUOYIZHISHIFENZIDEZUOYONGSHIYOUXIANDE。DANYEBUSHIJUEDUIDE,WOBUXIANGXINLISHIZUIHOUJIUSHIZHEIYANG。

          我们这一代人中有几个人敢总结经验

          凤凰文化:在您的著作中,1948和1957是出现过的两个明确的时刻点。如果未来还有这么一本书,或者哪怕已经在您的研究和思考中,只是没有直接表达,还有哪些时刻点是特别具有意义的?

          QIANLIQUN:SHIJISHANGSHULIDOUXIEGUO,WENGEHEBASHINIANDAIMO。

          凤凰文化:《1948天地玄黄》和《岁月沧桑》中有一个重叠的人物就是沈从文。为什么选择他?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHONGDIEHENDUO,FEIMING、ZHAOSHULIDOUTANDAODE。

          YIBANRENWEISHENCONGWENSHIZIYOUZHUYIDE,ZUOWEIYIGEZIYOUZHUYIZHEZAIJIANGUOHOUDEMINGYUN,TAYOUYIDINGDEDAIBIAOXING,SUOYIZHIXIEDAO1948NIANSHIBUXINGDE,BIXUYAOYANXUDAO1949NIANYIHOU。ZHAOSHULINI,WOTEBIEZHONGSHITA,WOJUEDETADAIBIAOLEZHISHIFENZIHENONGMINDEGUANXI,YEDAIBIAOLEZHONGGUOGEMING、ZHONGGUOGONGCHANDANGHENONGMINDEGUANXI,HENDIANXINGDEYIGERENWU。

          《1948TIANDIXUANHUANG》HE《SUIYUECANGSANG》ZHONGDEZHAOSHULIYOUYIGEQUBIE,SHIWODUIZHAOSHULIRENSHIDEFAZHAN。《1948TIANDIXUANHUANG》DANGSHIWORENWEIZHAOSHULIZHUYAOYOULIANGGESHENFEN,YIGETASHINONGMINDEDAIBIAO,LINGYIGETASHIGONGCHANDANGYUAN,SUOYITAZAIDANGHENONGMINZHIJIAN,XUANZEJIANNAN。DANSHIWOHOULAIZAIXIE《SUIYUECANGSANG》DESHIHOURENSHISHANGYOUYIGESHENGHUA,JUEDESHIJISHANGZHAOSHULIYOUSANGESHENFEN,TAJIGENNONGMINYOUMIQIELIANXI,YOUSHIZHONGCHENGDEZHONGGONGDANGYUAN,LINGYIFANGMIANTAHAISHISHUYUXIANDAIZHISHIFENZIDEFANWEI。GUOQUDUITAYOUYIDIANWUJIE,JUEDETAZHUYAOSHINONGMINDEZHISHIFENZI,SHIJISHANGTASHIYIGEXIANDAIZHISHIFENZI,TAHAISHIGENLUXUNCHUANTONGZHIJIEXIANGGUANDE,TAQIANGDIAODETONGSUHUAGENZUOLIANQIANGDIAODETONGSUWENXUEYUNDONGSHIYOUGUANXIDE。ZUIDIANXINGDESHIZHAOSHULIYOUYIGEZISHU,WOJUEDEZUINENGSHUOMINGTADETEDIAN,TASHUOTASHINONGMINZHONGDESHENGREN,TONGSHISHIZHISHIFENZIDANGZHONGYIGEYILEI。

          信用棋牌LINGWAIWOJUEDEZHAOSHULISHIYIGESIKAONONGMINWENTIDEREN,WORENWEIJIANGUOHOULIANGGEZHENZHENGDUINONGMINWENTIYOUDULIJIANJIEDEREN,YIGESHIMAOZEDONG,ZAIYIGEJIUSHIZHAOSHULI。

          沈从文、赵树理

          凤凰文化:在《岁月沧桑》里您写了自己的老师王瑶先生。您觉得您自己这一代知识分子和上一代知识分子有什么不同?

          QIANLIQUN:WOJUEDEYOUYIGEHENDADEBUTONG,WOZIJIYEZUOGUOZIWOJIANTAO,XIANGWANGYAOTASUOKAIPIDEXIANDAIWENXUECHUANTONGSHIGUANTONGGUJINZHONGXIDE,ERWOMENYINWEIBUDONGWAIWEN、DUIGUOWENYEBUSHUXI,MEIBANFAJICHENGTADECHUANTONG,ZHEISHIYIGEXIANTIANDEWENTI。ZHEIGEDAGAIYESHIWOZIJINEIZAIDEYIGEMAODUNHUOZHEYIHANBA,WODEYANJIUDAOZHEIGESHUIPINGYIHOUMEIYOUZAIGENGSHANGYICENG,JIUSHISHOUZHISHIJIEGOUDEJUXIAN。ZHISHIJIEGOUDEJUXIANYOUBUSHIZIJIDEZERENZAOCHENGDE,ERSHISHIDAIZAOCHENGDE。

          凤凰文化:嗯,因此也有人对您的研究和写作提出过一个评价——大多数是建立在自身生命和历史经验上,而且这也是您这一代知识分子的一个群体性特征。你自己怎么看待这种评价?毫无疑问的是,自身生命和历史经验都是有限的,您对此有过焦虑吗?

          QIANLIQUN:WOJUEDEZHEISHILIANGGEWENTI。WOQUESHIYOUZHEIZHONGJUXIAN,SUOYIWOSHUOWODEXUESHUYANJIUSHIYOUQUEHANDEJIAZHI。WOBENLAIKEYIFEIDEGENGGAO,XIANZAIWOSHANGBUQU,YUANYINJIUSHIYINWEIZHISHIJIEGOUDEWENTI。DANLINGYIFANGMIANWOJUEDEWOMENDETONGDAIRENQIAHAODUIWOMENDELISHIJINGYANMEIYOUHAOHAOLIYONG,ZHEISHIFEICHANGBAOGUIYIGECAIFU。YIGEHENJIANDANDEDAOLI,SULIAN、DONGOUBIANGEZHIHOUCHUANGZAOLEXINMAKESIZHUYI,YOULILUNDECHUANGZAO,WOMENZHEIYIDAIRENDELISHIJINGYANBISULIANFENGFUDEDUO,DANZHIJINMEIYOUCHUANGZAOCHULAILILUN。SHENMEYUANYIN?SHIJISHANGWOJUEDEWENTIQIAHAOJIUCHUZAIZHEIGEDIFANG,ZHEIZHONGJINGYANTIYANBINGMEIYOUCHONGFENFAHUI。

          WOYAOZUODESHIBAZIJIDEJINGYANJIAOXUN,JICHENGRENTADEJUXIANXING,DANTONGSHIYAOBATAFAHUIDAOJIDIAN,ZHEICAISHIYOUJIAZHIDE。ZHEIYIDAIDEJINGYANSHIFEICHANGBAOGUIDE,NAYOUXIANGWOMENNEIMEFENGFUDEJINGYAN,NIMENDOUBUKENENG,YIHOUHENZHANGSHIJIANDOUBUKENENGYOUWOMENZHEIYIDAIDEJINGYANTIYAN,ZHEISHIWOMENZHEIYIDAIDUZHANDEYOUSHI。DANSHIMEIYOUDUOSHAORENYONGZHEIGEYOUSHI,XIANZAIZHONGGUO,WOMENZHEIYIDAIRENZHONGYOUJIGERENGANZONGJIEJINGYAN?WOXIEZUOQISHIJIUSHIWEILEZAICHENGRENJUXIANDEQIANTIXIAZUIDAXIANDUDIFAHUIZHEIGEYOUSHI,DENGFAHUIWANLEJIUMEILE。ZHEISHIWODEXUANZE,SUOYIWOBINGBUBEIGUAN。

          “知识分子精神史”三部曲

          凤凰文化:您的“知识分子精神史”三部曲,思路很明显,对历史和前人的思考最终形成自我的反省。但为什么第三部《我的精神自传》却先于第二部《岁月沧桑》完成?

          QIANLIQUN:ZHEIGEYOUYIDINGDEOURANXING。WODEZUIHOUYIMENKE,SHIJIANGWODEHUIGUYUFANSI,DUIZIJIDEXUESHUZUOYIGEZONGJIE,JINJIEZHEMEIDUOJIU,YIGEZAZHIYUEWOXIEYIGEJINGSHENZICHUAN,ZHEIYANGZIJIUXIECHULAILE。

          凤凰文化:成书时有修改吗?

          QIANLIQUN:MEIYOU。BA《WODEJINGSHENZICHUAN》FANGZAISANBUQULI,YOUYIGEYUANYIN,YINWEIXIEDAOBASHINIANDAIYIHOU,TAIFUZALE,ERQIEHENDUODANGSHIRENHAIHUOZHE,ERWODUIZHISHIFENZISHENSHISHIBIJIAOYANJUNDE,NEIMEZHEIGEJIUBUTAIHESHILE,SUOYICONGZIJIXIASHOUJIUMEIYOUZHEILEIMAODUNLE,YEYOUZHEIDIANKAOLV。

          我对一部分精致的利己主义者有着理解的同情

          凤凰文化:您的“精致的利己主义者”影响太广泛了。不过,一方面是精致的利己主义者正在被培养和产生,另一方面青年也面临着巨大的生存困境,这其中其实包括许多精致的利己主义者,也有更多没那么精致的利己主义者。当社会给青年造成的困境已经到了利己主义都不太能够让他们逃离,更无谈从中获取私利,那么对利己主义的批评要如何回答这种困境?虽然每一代人都经历过各自的困境,但当下青年的困境确实也存在一些前所未有的东西。

          QIANLIQUN:YAOBALIJIZHUYIHEGERENZHUYILIANGGEGAINIANQUFENKAILAI。QINGNIANYUDAODEKUNJINGZAIYUGERENDELIYI、YUWANG——BAOKUOWUZHILI、BAOKUOJINGSHENLI——TEBIESHIGERENDEQUANLIDEBUDAOBAOHUHEMANZU。ZHEIZHONGDUIGERENLIYI、QUANLIDEZHUIQIUSHIWANQUANHELIDE,BUSHUYUWOPIPANDEDUIXIANG。WOJIANGDELIJIZHUYI,TEBIESHIJINGZHILIJIZHUYI,PIPANDESHITAHEQUANLIDEGUANXI,TAJILIXIANGCHENGWEIQUANLIDANGZHONGYIGECHENGYUAN,ERQIEWEILEDADAOZHEIGEMUDEKEYIPAOQIYIQIE,WOYAOPIPINGDESHIZHEIZHONGXIANXIANG。

          凤凰文化:也就是说您所批判的利己主义者,他们对欲望的要求已经超出了正常范围。

          QIANLIQUN:GERENZHUYIDEYAOQIUSHIHELIDE,ERLIJIZHUYIYOUYIGEWENTIJIUSHIQUESHAOXINYANG,GERENLIYICHENGLEWEIYIDEDONGXI。WODUIZHEIYIDAIGERENZHUYIZHUIQIUYUWANGHEQUANLISHIHENTONGQINGDE,WOMENZHEIYIDAIRENMEIYOUZHEIGEDONGXI,TAMENSHIXIQULEWOMENZHEIYIDAIJIAOXUNYIHOUXINGCHENGDE。QISHIGENWOMENDANGNIANGAOQIMENGZHUYIYEYOUGUANXI,QIMENGZHUYIFEICHANGQIANGDIAOGERENDELIYI、QIANGDIAOGERENZHUYI。DANWENTISHIZUIHOUFAZHANDAOJIDUANLE,MEIYOUXINYANGLE,ZAICHULIGERENXINGHESHEHUIXINGZHEILICHULEWENTI,ZHIYOUGERENLIYIZHUIQIU,ERMEIYOUSHEHUICHENGDAN。ZHEIYANGYIGEQINGKUANGXIA,ZUIRONGYIZOUXIANGJINGZHIDELIJIZHUYI。SHUODECHEDIYIDIAN,JIUSHIDUIRENXINGDEPIANLI。

          凤凰文化:您从事教育、思考教育、批评教育。如今我们也发现在社会的大背景下,对教育的某些看法发生了有趣的变化。就像您也说过的,中学教育被考试绑架,大学教育被就业绑架,这毫无疑问也是以往的一种普遍观点。与此同时,虽然这种教育模式有问题,但总体而言普遍还是认可其对于社会阶层的流动产生着积极作用,寒门子弟通过应试教育可以获得相对公平的竞争机会和前途的希望。这种教育状况可以说现在仍未有很大改变,但是新的观点却认为社会结构的趋于固化已经使教育变得无力了,穷孩子寒窗十年可能还追不上中产子弟的起跑线。您怎么看这个变化?

          QIANLIQUN:YOULIANGGEWENTI。YIGEWENTISHI,JISHISHIZHEIYANG,TABIJINGHAIYOUYIGESHOUJIAOYUDEJIHUI,SUOYIXIANZAIGAOKAOZHIDUHAIZHINENGZHEIYANG,WOYIZHIJIANCHIGAOKAOZHIDUSHIBUKEYIGAIDE,YINWEITAJIHUSHIHANMENZIDIWEIYIYIGEJIHUI,BAOKUODUIHENGSHUIZHONGXUENEIXIE,WOYEYOUYIZHONGLIJIEDETONGQING,HENDUORENMEIYOUBIEDEBANFA,ZHIYOUKAOZHEIZHONGKUDUYINGDUCAINENGSHANGLAI,RUGUOLIANZHEIGEDOUMEIYOU,TALIANSHANGDAXUEDEJIHUIDOUMEIYOU,ERSHANGDAXUEHEBUSHANGDAXUEDUIGERENYIHOUDEFAZHANHAISHIYOUYINGXIANGDE。

          LINGYIGEWENTIYESHIKEYIZHUYIDEYIGEXIANXIANG,ZHEIDIANWOYEYOULIJIEDETONGQING,JIUSHIWOSHUODEJINGZHIDELIJIZHUYIZHEYOUXIANGDANGYIBUFENSHIPINHANCHUSHENDE,TAZHIYOUXIANGQUANLIKAOLONGZHEITIAOLU,FOUZEMEIYOURENHECHULU。WOXIANZAIZHUYIDAOYIXIEQINGNIANXUEZHEYEYOUZHEIGEWENTI,YINWEIQINGNIANXUEZHEDESHENGCUNHUANJINGBURUNEIWOMENYIDAIREN,WOMENNEISHIXIANGWANGYAOLAOSHIDOUSHIJINLIXIANGBANITUICHUQU,ERXIANZAITEBIESHIWULIUSHISUINEIYIDAIRENSHIJISHANGSHI“XUEBA”LE,ZHANGWOZHEXUESHUQUANLI,DUIZIJIXUESHENGSHIYAYIDE,ZAIZHEIZHONGQINGKUANGXIA,YOUXIEQINGNIANXUEZHEXIANGTUPOXUESHUQUANLIDEYAYI,SUOYIXIANGZHENGZHIQUANLIKAOLONG,ZHEISHITAWEIYIDECHULU。

          DANWENTISHI,KAISHISHIBEIPODEKEYILIJIE,GAOJIULEYIHOUBIANZIYUANLE,ZHEIJIUCHUWENTILE。YEKEYIZHUYIDAOTANWUFUBAIFENZIHENDUODOUSHIHANMENZIDI,YUANYINJIUSHIKAISHIDESHIHOUXIANGJIJINQUANLI,DANGSHIZHISHAOYOUYIZHONGLIYOUSHUOFUZIJI,JIUSHIZHANGQUANZHIHOUKEYIWEIFULAOXIANGQINZUOYIXIESHI,HENDUORENKAISHIDOUSHIZHEIMEXIANGDE,YEKENENGZUOXIEHAOSHI,DANSHIJINRUQUANLIYIHOUJIUCHUBULAILE。ZHEIBENSHENSHIYIGEHENYOUYISIDEXIANXIANG,JIUSHIHANMENZIDIZAIZHONGGUODEJIAOYUHEZHENGZHIJIEGOUZHONGSUOCHUDEDIWEIYUKUNJING。

          凤凰文化:您说过青年正在寻找自己的道路。这是一条什么样的道路?而且据您观察,青年找到了吗?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:WOYOUYIGEYANJIANG,JIUSHIJIANGXIANZAIWOGUANCHADAODEYIBUFENQINGNIANDEDONGXIANG,ZHUANMENZHIDESHICANJIAXIANGCUNJIANSHEDEZHEIPIREN。WOJUEDEZHISHAOCANJIAXIANGCUNJIANSHEDEZHEIPIRENKENENGHUIYOUYIXIEXINDEYIYIHEJIAZHI,YINWEIXIANZAIXIANGCUNJIANSHEHEGUOQUYOUDIANBUDAYIYANG,TASHIFANGZAIYIGEQUANQIUHUADEBEIJINGXIA,YAOXUNZHAOYITIAOSHIHEZHONGGUODEGONGYEHUA、XIANDAIHUAFAZHANDAOLU。WOMENGUOQUYOUYIGELINIAN,RENWEICONGNONGYEHUADAOGONGYEHUASHIYIGELISHIJINHUADEGUOCHENG,SHIYIGETAOTAILINGYIGEDEGUOCHENG,YIGEFOUDINGLINGYIGEDEGUOCHENG。XIANZAIKANLAIBUSHI,BUNENGJIANDANDIYONGGONGYEWENMINGDAITINONGYEWENMING,ERSHIYAOKAOLVDAOYIGEGENGDADESHIYE。WOQIANBUJIUJIYIGEXIANGCUNJIANSHEQINGNIANDESHUXIEXU,TAMENZHENGZAIXUNZHAOYITIAOXINDECHULU,ZAIQIANGDIAOSHENGTAIWENMINGDEBEIJINGXIAZHONGXINFAXIANNONGYEWENMINGDEHELIXING,LIYONGZHONGGUOCHUANTONGNONGYEWENMINGDEZHANGCHULAIJINXINGYIZHONGXINDEJIANSHE,WOJUEDETAMENZHEIZHONGCHANGSHISHIYOUYIYIHEJIAZHIDE,ERQIEZAIMOUZHONGCHENGDUSHANGSHIKEYIYINGXIANGZHONGGUOWEILAIFAZHANDE。DUIZHEIYANGYIXIEQINGNIAN,WOSHIJIYUXIWANGDE。

          课外读物是介入教育的一种民间方式

          凤凰文化:您曾经编过中小学语文读本,其实这些年来关于语文教育和教材的讨论时有出现。民国课本也被重新发掘,并作为对比样本获得许多赞美,您觉得这种认识是准确和正常的吗?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHEISHEJIDAOLINGYIGEDAWENTI,JIUSHIMINGUORE。WOJUEDEYOUDIANBAMINGUOGUOFENLIXIANGHUA,CONGWODEYANJIULAISHUOHENJIANDAN,BAMINGUOLIXIANGHUALEYIHOULUXUNDEJIAZHIJIUBUCUNZAILE,YINWEILUXUNSHIPIPANMINGUODE。SUOYIWOBUZANCHENGBAMINGUOGUOFENLIXIANGHUA。

          WOZIJIDUIZHONGXIAOXUEYUWENJIAOYUDEJIERUYOUYIGETESHUDEJINGLI,WOKAISHIJIERUSHITIZHINEIDEJIERU,DANGSHIGUOJIACHENGLILELEISIJIAOCAIXIAOZU,TAMENQINGWODANGGUWEN,HOULAIYOUBEITAMENGANCHULAILE。SUOYIWODUIJIAOYUDEJIERUSHIYIZHONGMINJIANJIAOYUFANGSHI,WOBUSHIBIANJIAOCAI,ERSHIBIANKEWAIDUWU,XIANGYONGKEWAIDUWULAIYINGXIANGJIAOCAIHUOZHEZUOJIAOCAIDEBUCHONG。SUOYIWOBIANLEYIGEHENYOUMINGDE《XINYUWENDUBEN》,YINGXIANGFEICHANGZHIDA,ERZHEIGE《XINYUWENDUBEN》SHIJISHANGYINGXIANGDAOHOULAIDEJIAOCAIBIANXIE。WOJUEDEZAIJIZHIYUELAIYUEYANDEQINGKUANGXIA,KENENGJIAOCAIJIBENMEIXICHANGLE,GENBENBUZHUNNIJIERU,JIANGLAIKENENGYOUYIDIANFAZHANDE,YEZHIYOUKEWAIDUWULE。BAOKUOWANGANYI、BEIDAOTAMENBIANDEDOUSHIKEWAIDUWU。

          凤凰文化:您看过他们编的读物吗?他们也表达过各自编选的思路,可能每个人的想法都不一样,那您当初编选的思路是怎样的?有没有一个需要共同遵循的原则?

          QIANLIQUN:WOJUEDEKEWAIDUWUYINGGAIYOUGENGDADEZIYOUDU,YINWEITASHIXUANZEXINGDE,TAGENJIAOCAIBIJINGBUYIYANG,HENNANYOUYIGETONGYIDEDONGXI。WOMEIYOUZIXIKANGUOTAMENBIANDE,DANWOSHIZHICHITAMENDE。

          WODE《XINYUWENDUBEN》YOUYITAOZIJIDELINIAN。BIRUWOHENMINGQUEDITICHUZONGTISHANGYINGGAIBARENLEIWENMINGHEMINZUWENMINGZUIMEIHAODEDONGXIJIWOMENDEHAIZI,ZHEISHIZONGDELINIAN,SUOYIWOZHUZHANGKEWAIDUWUDEBIANXIEYINGGAIJIYOUWAIGUODE,YEYOUGUDAIDEHEXIANDANGDAIDE,GENXIANZAIGUOFENQIANGDIAOGUWENSHIBUYIYANGDE,XIANZAIZHEIGESILUBUDUI,JIUTASHIYISHIXINGTAIDE。WODANGSHIHAITICHU,WOMENDEJIAOCAIYINGGAISHIYIGEZONGHEDEDONGXI,BUYAOCHUNCUIDEWENXUEDUBEN,HAIYAOYOUHENDUOZIRANKEXUEFANGMIANDEWENZHANG,SHENZHIHAIYINGGAIYOUZHEXUE,SHIYIZHONGDUOXUEKEDEKAIKUOSHIYE。WOHAITICHUYIXIEBIJIAODADEWENTI,YAOPEIYANGXUESHENGDESIWEINENGLI,HAIYAOPEIYANGXUESHENGDEXIANGXIANGLI,BIRUWOMENDANGSHIBIANDEYIGEDANYUANJIAOTUDIDANYUAN,SHIRENLEIGEMINZUDUITUDIDEBUTONGXIANGXIANG,HAIKAILEHENDUOZHUANTIZHUANMENTAOLUNSIWEIWENTI,ZHEISHIHENDUOXIANDAIJIAOCAIMEIYOUDE。

          我对亲情好像没有那么强烈的情感 

          钱理群的父亲钱天鹤

          凤凰文化:您10岁就与父亲分离,父亲的缺席对于您此生的影响是什么?

          QIANLIQUN:SHIJISHANGXIAODESHIHOUGENFUQINJIECHUYEFEICHANGSHAO。HOULAIYINGXIANGGENGDADESHIZHENGZHISHANGDE,BIRUWOWEISHENMEHUIFENDAOGUIZHOUQU,XIANRANGENJIATINGCHUSHENSHIYOUGUANXIDE。WOZAIYIKAISHIJIUCHENGWEIGEMINGDEDUIXIANG,YEGENZHEIGEJIATINGCHENGFENYOUGUANXI。SUOYITADUIWOLAISHUOKENENGHAIBUSHIGANQINGSHANGZENMEYANG,ERSHIZHENGZHISHANGDE。

          凤凰文化:那心灵情感层面呢?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:BUSHITEBIENEIGE。

          凤凰文化:为什么?

          QIANLIQUN:WOYEBUZHIDAOWEISHENME,FANZHENGJIUHAOXIANGMEIYOUNEIMEDADEQINQINGNEIZHONGQINGGAN,HAOXIANGBUSHITAIQIANGLIE。

          凤凰文化:您选择养老院养老,一生也没有生养子女,是否和父亲缺席下的成长体验有关?

          QIANLIQUN:MEIYOUGUANXI。MEIYOUZINVYOUYIGEYUANYINJIUSHIYINWEIWOJIEHUNFEICHANGWAN,LINGWAIDANGSHISHIWENGEHOUQI,WANQUANKANBUDAOXIWANG,YINWEINEISHIHOUJIATINGCHUSHENSHIYAOYINGXIANGDAODISANDAIDE,WODANGSHIGANJUEZIJIYIJINGCHENGSHOUZHEJIATINGDEZHONGDAN,YIJINGGOULE,BUYUANYIZAICHUANDAOHOUMIANQULE。

          凤凰文化:我觉得这种选择可能在某种程度上为您后来专注于学术提供了条件,因为少了一些家庭负担,但同时它也造成了家庭感情生活方面的一种遗憾。您自己有没有后悔过这种选择?

          QIANLIQUN:ZONGTIERSHUO,XIANGWOZHEIYANGDEREN,KENENGYESHISHOUZHONGGUOGEMINGDEYINGXIANG,SHIYEXINGENGDA,NEIZHONGERNVQINGZHANGDEDONGXIBIJIAOSHAO,BAOKUOXIANZAIWOMENXIONGDIJIEMEIZHIJIANLAIWANGDOUBINGBUMIQIE。

          凤凰文化:这个是您个人性格还是说一代人的特征?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:ZHEIGEWOBUZHIDAO,FANZHENGZHISHAOBUSHISHUOXIANGXIANZAISUOSHUODE,DANGRANBUSHIMEIYOUQINQING,YEHENSHEN,DANSHITABUSHITEBIENEIZHONG。HAOXIANGWOMENZHEIYIDAIRENBIJIAOQIGUAI,BIJIAODADESHIYEXIN。WOGENWODEBIAOXIONG、BIAODIJIBENMEISHENMELAIWANG,GENXIANZAIHENBUYIYANG,JIATINGBUSHITAIDADEYIGE……

          凤凰文化:您有如此强烈的事业心,可您也说过,您不习惯成为议论的中心。不成为中心,您所呼吁、所批评的东西很难产生广泛的影响,这对于思考者来讲应该是一个苦闷。您觉得存在这种矛盾吗?

          QIANLIQUN:WOJUEDEMEIYOUSHENMETAIDADEMAODUN。WOJINRUSHEHUIYOUYIGEQIANTI,JIUSHIZIJIDEXUESHUDIWEIYIJINGQUEDINGLE,ZAINEIGEQIANTIXIAZAILAIDUISHEHUIFAYAN,YINGXIANGSHIZIRANXINGCHENGDE,BUYONGKEYIQUZHUIQIUTA。WOXIANZAIQIANGDIAOBUYUANYICHENGWEIZHONGXIN,GENGDUOSHIZAITUIXIUZHIHOU,TEBIESHIJINYANGLAOYUANZHIHOU,YUANYINHENJIANDAN,WOXIANZAIZHUIQIUDESHIRANGWOZIJIANJINGXIALAI,HAOHAOXIEZIJIXIANGXIEDEDONGXI,ZHEISHIHOUJIUBUXUYAOBIERENZHUYILE,ERQIEZHUYIDUIWOMEISHENMEYIYI。

          我一直处在高峰,但现在开始有点衰了

          凤凰文化:如今您住进养老院已经整整两年了,现在的感觉还和之前一样好吗?生活上有没有什么新的变化?

          QIANLIQUN:WOZIJIMEISHENMETAIDADEGAIBIAN,SUIRANXIANZAIHUOSHIBIANCHALE,DANSHIDUIWOLAISHUOHUOSHISHIBUCHENGWENTIDE,XIANZAIDEHUOSHIWOYENENGSHIYING。ZUIDADEHAOCHUSHIWOKEYIYOUZIYOUXIEZUODESHIJIAN,WOQULEZHIHOUKENENGXIELEYOUDAGAIQIBASHIWANZILE。

          凤凰文化:两年的时间七八十万字?您大部分时间都是用来写作吗?

          QIANLIQUN:DUI。

          凤凰文化:养老院有这么多的老人……

          QIANLIQUN:WOYILVBUCANJIA。

          凤凰文化:也没有什么交往吗?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:WOMEIYOUJIAOWANG,TAMENDANGSHIDEXUANCHUANDUIWOYEYOULI,SHUOQIANXIANSHENGLAILESHIXIEZUODE,SUOYIYIBANRENCONGLAIBULAIDARAOWO。

          凤凰文化:那您也不会感到单调、寂寞吗?

          QIANLIQUN:BU。ZHEIZHONGXIEZUOSHICHUANGZUOXINGLAODONG、SHIZIYOUXIEZUO,KEYIDAILAIJIDADEKUAILEDE,XIEZUOBENSHENJIWODAILAIHENDADEMANZUGAN。MOUZHONGCHENGDUSHANGWOXIANZAICHUYUZUIJIAZHUANGTAI,SHISUOYOUXIEZUOZHONGZUIZIYOUDEYIGEJIEDUAN,SUOYIWOZHENGTIANNAOZILIXIANGDEDONGXISHIJISHANGDOUSHIXIEZUO。

          WODAOYANGLAOYUANZUOSANJIANSHI,YIGESHIDUANLIANSHENTI,MEITIANYAODUANLIANYIXIAOSHI,ZHEISHIGUOQUMEIYOUDE,LINGWAIYIGEJIUSHIXIEZUO,TONGSHIHAIBUDUANYOUPENGYOULAIKANWO,SUOYIWOBINGBUJIMO。

          ZHISHAOWOXIANZAIDEZHUANGTAISHIBIJIAOHAODEZHUANGTAI,DANSHIBUGANSHUOSHIBUSHINENGCHIXUXIAQU,SHENTIHAISHILAOLE,BIRAN……SUOYIWEISHENMEWOXIANZAIPINMINGDIXIEZHEIMEKUAI,WOJUEDEYIGEYUANYINJIUSHI,SUISHIKENENGYINWEISHENTIWENTI——BUJINWOZIJIDESHENTI,HAIYOULAOBANDESHENTI,YINWEIWOSHENGHUOWANQUANYANGLAITA,TAYICHULEWENTI,WOYEZUOBULESHENMESHILE。

          凤凰文化:所以您现在这种紧迫感非常强烈?

          QIANLIQUN:FEICHANGQIANGLIE,DAGAIJIULIANGSANNIAN。

          凤凰文化:那您有没有想过,是不是对自己的要求太高了?

          QIANLIQUN:BU,YINWEIZHEISHIYIGEZIWOMANZU。

          凤凰文化:也就是说您的这种满足感其实是无止境的?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:BUYIDING。WOXIANZAIHAICHUZAIGAOFENGJIEDUAN,ZHEIGEGAOFENGJIEDUANBUKENENGCHIXU,WOXIANZAIYIJINGKAISHIYOUDIANSHUAILE,BUXIANGYUANLAINEIME……,XIEZUOSUDUYEKAISHIJIANMANLE,YINWEINIANLINGSHIYIGEKEGUANDEXIANZHI。

          凤凰文化:这个高峰从什么时候开始的?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:WOHENTEBIE,YIZHICHUZAIGAOFENGJIEDUAN。

          凤凰文化:那还会继续吗?

          信用棋牌QIANLIQUN:JIXUHENDUANDESHIJIAN,BUHUIZHANGLE,WOZHENZHENGXIANGXIEDEDONGXICHABUDUOLE。

          (感谢北大培文和编辑周彬、张丽娉对本次采访提供的帮助)

          信用棋牌ZEBIAN:XUPENGYUAN PN071

          我们时代的心灵史
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